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[yak@collab] Re: Interesting blog

To: yak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: John Sechrest <sechrest@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:10:44 -0800
Message-id: <E1D2yLk-0002BD-BX@jas.peak.org>

Ok. Suppose that we are going to create a collaboratorium
and we are going to support the creation of this effort. 
Part of this effort is a technical one to have basic
tools. Part of this is social one which identifies specific
methodolocgies and processes.    (01)

I wonder we can take our unformed group and find a way to take
our random writings and turn them into a more effective 
collaboratorium.    (02)

One way to do this is to crank up the heat on things by having
papers , articles with deadlines and reviews.    (03)

So... What social processes do you put in place that enable
this development?    (04)





Jack Park <jackpark@gmail.com> writes:    (05)

 % So, now Henry has done a masterful job of detailing a "day in the
 % life" of a participant in some imagined DKR. His very thoughtful post
 % opens the doors to discussions which, I think, Yak is all about. How
 % best to build a collaboratorium...
 % 
 % My suggestion, and the suggestions of others, that Henry consider
 % Fleabyte as a blog, make sense. But, my interpretation of my read of
 % what Henry appears to *really* be looking for is probably not a blog
 % at all, but, rather, a collaboratorium. This gets awfully close to the
 % heart of TopicSpaces (twisting hat slightly around, but not fully).
 % 
 % TopicSpaces has in mind the notion that there needs to be a way to
 % *federate*, not aggregate (read: aggravate) blogs. I say that with a
 % rather strong sense of what I mean, but i'm not sure I convey it well,
 % so here's a sketch.  I strongly feel that Fleabyte, as it historically
 % appears, is a great blog. I suspect Henry wants Fleabyte to morph into
 % a collaborative (kindof) blog, with, perhaps, a central editorial
 % sense, and contributions by several authors. I would thus morph that
 % desire into a collaboration of individual blogs, with a kindof central
 % summarizer/topic map.  When we aggregate blogs, we collect their
 % syndications. That's pretty much it. Sometimes, those syndications get
 % categorized, like, by author, time, maybe even subject (whatever that
 % is).
 % 
 % I would argue that there is merit in some arguments that the RDF
 % folks, the RSS syndicators et al., have somehow managed to ignore the
 % notion of *subject identity*. I'll be quick to point out that they
 % seem to, these days, be coming to that realization; some papers within
 % the RDF camps are talking about PSIs (published subject indicators --
 % usually URIs of one sort or another, which, if used properly, rely in
 % everybody anchoring their "subjects" with those URIs -- a kind of
 % ontological commitment that many people are not ready to make). My
 % argument is that there is little sense in aggregating without paying
 % attention to subject identity. Once you pay attention to subject
 % identity, you just entered the domain of topic maps, so why not topic
 % map the blogosphere instead of aggregating it? It's a kind of
 % aggravation (maybe a word that includes "google" in it) when you go to
 % some site to find out something about a particular subject and what
 % you get is a bazillion hits, all somewhat unfiltered -- sortof like
 % classic google. It's to the credit of the search universe that  search
 % engines are beginning to cluster results and paint topic map-like
 % results.
 % 
 % Bernard Vatant, one of the contributors to the book _XML Topic Maps_
 % (his chapter dealt with PSIs), has started a multi-author blog on
 % precisely the subject of "subject identity". You can read it at
 % http://universimmedia.blogspot.com/ . Murray and I are among the
 % contributors. Subject identity is an enormous inquiry.
 % 
 % Back to Fleabyte.
 % 
 % Given Henry's comments below, and from earlier comments in this and
 % other venues, I'm beginning to think that a solution to Henry's quest
 % lies more in a collaboratorium, which I would describe as a
 % *federation* of blogs. Henry argues for a central authority (probably
 % the wrong word to use here), one that is fundable -- perhaps a
 % foundation -- which can thus sustain the editorial policies he and
 % collaborators would advocate, and which can thus satisfy Henry's quest
 % to keep the Fleabyte inquiry alive after Henry retires.
 % 
 % Just a bit of a recap on TopicSpaces. That's the catchy name I
 % invented after Sam Hunting badgered me into collaborating with him on
 % a project for Tom Munnecke's GivingSpace efforts, as funded through
 % the Omidyars. We coupled my tuplespace (TupleSpace4J) with Sam's
 % (python) topic map engine and crafted a GIS topic map of villages in
 % Africa. Click on certain villages and you were taken to a topic in a
 % topic  map that served as a collection of all that was then knowable
 % about that village (the context being blog entries about that
 % village). That project opened the door to the notion that we could use
 % a *coordination language* (the simple programming language used for
 % tuplespaces) as a means to coordinate a collection of local and remote
 % agents which harvest information and send that information in to be
 % federated into a central topic map. That's TopicSpaces.  How does that
 % apply to Henry's quest? I believe it is possible to have local and
 % remote weblogs busy serving the needs of some community (e.g.
 % Fleabyte), which ship information back to a host collaboratorium where
 % a topic map engine is busy federating that content into a larger
 % presentation. By application of a variety of important technologies,
 % like augmented social networks, it should be possible to create an
 % extensible, evolvable, scalable worldwide community of individuals of
 % the kind Henry seeks.
 % 
 % Or not.
 % Jack
 % 
 % 
 % On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 16:57:38 -0500, Henry K van Eyken
 % <vaneyken@sympatico.ca> wrote:
 % > Well, Jack, you provided me with a nice opportunity to dig a little
 % > deeper into what I believe Fleabyte ought be capable of doing. Warning:
 % > not for hasty reading; needs contemplation leading to solutions.
 % > 
 % > In steps, kind of:
 % > 
 % > 1. I encounter an article that I believe is not merely interesting but
 % > of great importance for the voting public at large. (Ruddiman, "How did
 % > humans first alter global climate?" Sc. Am., March, 2005). I then refer
 % > to the paper in a short story to relate it to the essence of what I
 % > believe people and their representatives ought be aware of. In this case
 % > there are two such "themes" I want to single out  neither one relating
 % > to the title of the article):
 % > 
 % > 1a. (Quote): In these kinds of hotly contested topics [global warming]
 % > that touch on public policy, scientific results are often used for
 % > opposing ends. Global warming skeptics could cite my work as evidence
 % > that human generated greenhouse gases played a beneficial role [without
 % > them we would already have entered an ice age] by keeping the earth's
 % > climate more hospitable than it would otherwise have been. Others might
 % > counter that if so few humans with relatively primitive technologies
 % > were able to alter the course of climate so significantly, then we have
 % > reason to be concerned about the current irse of greenhouse gases to
 % > unparalleled concentrations at unprecedented rates.
 % > 
 % > 1b. A diagram showing what Ruddiman believes is the greenhouse effect of
 % > human activities thus far and that the present is already past the
 % > center of a hockey sticks curve. It then extrapolates into a further
 % > steep rise followed by a rapid drop after fossil fuels are depleted.
 % > 
 % > With item 1b I run into a legal problem. I can't duplicate the artwork
 % > because it is copyrighted. Either I obtain permission or I arrange for
 % > different artwork for same graph. (Information is not copyrighted.) This
 % > involves work and delay.
 % > 
 % > Advantage of Ruddiman having that book in press ("Plows, Plagues, and
 % > Petroleum: How Humans Took Control of Climate"), one might expect it to
 % > permit a useful review-essay, but then again, the SciAm article may be
 % > sufficient. That article, though, is not available in digital form,
 % > which keeps it out of a DKR (dynamic knowledge repository) and hence
 % > presents a weak link in a network leading to purposefully integrations
 % > of "lower level" knowledge. But we do have in digital format pdf,
 % > actually) a paper that apparently is the forerunner of the SciAm
 % > article. Oops! Now I have a technical problem. I am looking for the
 % > title of that paper which I have on my harddrive, but my Linux file
 % > browser doesn't show me the first page! So, back to googling the
 % > Internet; ah, here it is: "The Anthropogenic Greenhouse Era Began
 % > Thousands of Years Ago." OK, recovered from that problem.
 % > 
 % > 2. Now the fun begins. Two problems here:
 % > 2a. Ruddiman himself states that his hypothesis is provocative and
 % > controversial. This needs to be looked into because that is likely to
 % > affect what public policy best be.
 % > 2b. The opposing schools of thought need be analysed. What interests are
 % > behind them? Should any of these interests be taken to task for, say,
 % > putting individuals ahead of the community.
 % > 
 % > 4. Jack's reference to www.realclimate.org/ leads to one major barrier
 % > to understanding issues more deeply: a grasp of mathematics. Voters here
 % > become sitting ducks. A way need be found around this. In many cases
 % > this might be the use of, let's say, highly sophisticated electronic
 % > calculators of which the algorithms are "understood" in principle (I
 % > should really say "in principle of sorts"). In this case the problem is
 % > the very mathematical principle involved that calls for some grasp. The
 % > reference deals with that, but it ain't good enough from a journalistic
 % > point of view.
 % > 
 % > 5. Things need to be put in layman's terms, written in a manner that
 % > attracts interest for that is the only way we can get people to come to
 % > understand an "issue" and thereby influence political thinking. In other
 % > words we need quality journalism, a writing that is plain and does not
 % > distort. Tall order.
 % > 
 % > 6. Next I have that Dutch newspaper article. It is in electronic format
 % > so I can shove it straight into the DKR. But here we need some extra
 % > capability for the OHS: automated translation without distortion. The
 % > article concerns a choice that needs a high degree of
 % > scientific/technical understanding PLUS a sense of personal
 % > responsibility for the future of one's own kids (so as not to use the
 % > word "mankind"): going nuclear (less greenhouse gas) or letting the
 % > atmosphere heat up, with all its consequences. Will we trust the experts
 % > to decide things for us? The politicians?
 % > 
 % > 7. I mentioned consequences. These include mortal conflicts and, hence,
 % > Fleabyte should be concerned with the nature of human morality - a
 % > subject involving, again, mathematics, believe it or not.
 % > 
 % > Let me stop here. Fleabyte, to be effective at all, cannot be a simple
 % > blog of one person putting his thoughts on the Internet.
 % > 
 % > Enough said for now about matters editorial. Now we have some
 % > technological problems to look at:
 % > a. The relatively simple one of making magazine production efficient and
 % > present a clean face to the world. You have already seen the hassles on
 % > this forum.
 % > b. The organization of the archives. Clearly, this cannot be a simple
 % > listing of articles.
 % > 
 % > I believe that going the route described in the article "A Medium for
 % > Global Civics" is the way to go; that in a democratic, be it national or
 % > worldwid,e society we have no alternative route. (Or do we?) I also see
 % > it as exceedingly difficult to make a go of it.
 % > 
 % > How is this for a 30-sec. elevator speech?
 % > 
 % > Henry
 % > 
 % > 
 % > On Sat, 2005-02-19 at 13:28, Jack Park wrote:
 % > > Actually, Henry, the post was to highlight the power of a good blog,
 % > > not so much to enter the climate debate. I have my own opinions on
 % > > that, and this isn't the forum for those. But, several people are
 % > > using blogs for real work.
 % > >
 % > > Incidentally, one of my favorite typos: I said the blog was TypePad.
 % > > It is *not*. It is *WordPress*, an open source product.
 % > >
 % > > Jack
 % > >
 % > >
 % > > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:16:53 -0500, Henry K van Eyken
 % > > <vaneyken@sympatico.ca> wrote:
 % > > > Jack.
 % > > >
 % > > > Scientific American of February has an article by Ruddiman (who has a
 % > > > book in the press called "Plows, Plague and Petroleum" - rings a bell
 % > > > somewhere? He hypothisizes that global warming began about 8000 years
 % > > > ago due to beginnings of agriculture (CH4 emissions from wetland like
 % > > > rice paddies) with also effect beginning about 5000 years ago (CO2 from
 % > > > deforestation). Latter effect enhanced in last century, hence the 
hockey
 % > > > stick graph. His data are based on analyses of ice cores. Without those
 % > > > effects we would have followed the temperature pattern consequential to
 % > > > solar radiation variations due to changing Earth-Sun geometry. That
 % > > > would have already put is in the now still upcoming ice age.
 % > > >
 % > > > I thought it would be interesting to combine Ruddiman's hypothesis with
 % > > > a Dutch newspaper report about politicians reviving notion of stepping
 % > > > up nuclear. Given the choice, nuclear or global warming, talk is of
 % > > > nuclear being less of these evils. However, nuclear would engender
 % > > > resistance in The Neherlands whereas not so in France (different
 % > > > populations, hence different attitudes).
 % > > >
 % > > > Googling for "global warming" brings up as top candidates a sight by 
the
 % > > > Environmental Protection Agency and a strongly contrasting "consumers
 % > > > rights" site.
 % > > >
 % > > > Mix all this in with what we find on the site you refer to 
(RealClimate)
 % > > > and we have the beginnings of a heap of material that really takes a
 % > > > cooperative effort to turn into a comprehensible digest upon which to
 % > > > take a position.
 % > > >
 % > > > I thought I might do some item on Ruddiman and public attitudes, but it
 % > > > is clear I would only add to the noise surrounding a complex issue.
 % > > >
 % > > > Which makes me wonder about the sanity of going ahead with Fleabyte as 
a
 % > > > blog, to say nothing of my own sanity.
 % > > >
 % > > > Well, here is still pondering,
 % > > >
 % > > > Henry
 % > > >
 % > > >
 % > > > On Sat, 2005-02-19 at 11:48, Jack Park wrote:
 % > > > > Here [1] is a really interesting blog, using TypePad. It's a bunch of
 % > > > > climate scientists (or appears to be so) doing a useful job of
 % > > > > discussing climate issues in light of the scary headlines starting to
 % > > > > show up everywhere.
 % > > > >
 % > > > > Jack
 % > > > > [1] http://www.realclimate.org/
 % > > >
 % > > > --
 % > > > This message is archived at:
 % > > >
 % > > > 
http://collab.blueoxen.net/forums/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=yak&i=1108837012.3014.20.camel@localhost.localdomain
 % > > >
 % > > >
 % > 
 % > --
 % > This message is archived at:
 % > 
 % > 
http://collab.blueoxen.net/forums/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=yak&i=1108850258.2800.85.camel@localhost.localdomain
 % > 
 % >
 % 
 % -- 
 % This message is archived at:
 % 
 % 
http://collab.blueoxen.net/forums/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=yak&i=5179aafa0502201052704a14f@mail.gmail.com
 %     (06)

-----
John Sechrest          .         Helping people use
                        .           computers and the Internet
                          .            more effectively
                             .                      
                                 .       Internet: sechrest@peak.org
                                      .   
                                              . http://www.peak.org/~sechrest    (07)

-- 
This message is archived at:    (08)

http://collab.blueoxen.net/forums/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=yak&i=E1D2yLk-0002BD-BX@jas.peak.org    (09)
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