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[yak@collab] Re: Survey of yak and tools-yak on the way

To: <yak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Tom Munnecke" <munnecke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:07:38 -0800
Message-id: <013001c3a8e3$471818f0$6401a8c0@tomdesk>
(Refraining from suggestions to Jack about lighting candles instead of
cursing the darkness)    (01)

In my work on virtual reality displays years ago, I learned that the
quality of the experience was not in having a perfect image rendered,
but rather realistic motion and interaction.  In other words, a crude
look at the whole has a lot of value.    (02)

Another concept I picked up from Ways of Worldmaking, by Nelson Goodman,
is the notion of a "fair sample."  For example, what is the smallest
swatch of a bolt of cloth from which we can understand the whole
pattern?  This is the fair sample of the pattern.  So, even if Josh's
questions aren't perfect, they are enough to get started, a fair sample
of the material they were seeking.  Hopefully, they will be able to draw
some ideas about the things that aren't being measured...     (03)

Jack, you probably didn't color inside of the lines when you were a kid,
either.    (04)



-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Park [mailto:jackpark@thinkalong.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 9:39 PM
To: yak@collab.blueoxen.net
Subject: [yak@collab] Re: Survey of yak and tools-yak on the way    (05)

I suppose I should appologize for my outrageous behavior here, but I'll 
do so with a story. Last Saturday, at dinner time, some woman called me 
saying that AAA -- that's the Automobile Club -- was doing a survey. I 
won't say in public what I said to her, but it left one helluva bad 
taste in my mind (go figure) about surveys.  There was a really nice 
young woman calling on behalf of the state of California doing a survey 
on smoking. I bit and answered her questions. She seemed nice, but the 
questions were written by amateurs.  When she axed if I thought nicotine    (06)

is carcinogenic (she didn't use those words), I asked her if she was 
aware of a molecule in living cells with a similar name and structure 
and which plays a key role in metabolism. She had never heard of it. I 
rested my case saying that there is no real way to know what causes 
cancer in many cases, particularly where you are mixing metaphors. Is it    (07)

the nicotine or something else carried in the smoke? She didn't know
either.    (08)

Jack    (09)

Josh Rai wrote:    (010)

> You may direct any outrage or incredulous looks at Eugene, Miroslav 
> and me.
>
> Josh
>
> Jack Park wrote:
>
>> I did it. Who wrote those questions?
>>
>> Jack Park wrote:
>>
>>> Gag me with a spoon...
>>>
>>> Tom Munnecke wrote:
>>>
>>>> It took me 15 minutes, Jack... you can do it.  You can do it...
think
>>>> of the little train that could. -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jack Park [mailto:jackpark@thinkalong.com] Sent: Tuesday, 
>>>> November 11, 2003 5:34 PM
>>>> To: yak@collab.blueoxen.net
>>>> Subject: [yak@collab] Re: Survey of yak and tools-yak on the way
>>>>
>>>> It takes a "doer" to foment a form for others to fill out. It takes    (011)

>>>> a special kind of doer, one who's not tied doing other things, to 
>>>> fill out
>>>>
>>>> that damned form.
>>>>
>>>> Jack
>>>>
>>>> Josh Rai wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> As threatened
>>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
(http://collab.blueoxen.net/forums/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=yak&i=3F832F29.106    (012)

>>>>
>>>> 0700@babycenter.com),
>>>>
>>>>> Eugene, Miroslav and I are back to let you know that you all can 
>>>>> expect to receive a survey about the Blue Oxen collaboratories via    (013)

>>>>> email in the coming hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> Part of the purpose of the survey is to evaluate and improve the 
>>>>> collaboratories.  Another part is for us to develop, through 
>>>>> practice and thought, techniques for evaluating collaborative 
>>>>> environments in general. We are cognizant of the risks of looking 
>>>>> for yardsticks in such a thicket (as Tom, Chris and others have 
>>>>> warned), but I think it's worth a try.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jack's classification of doers and talkers strikes me especially 
>>>>> in the context of this survey and the associated report we're 
>>>>> working on;
>>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure to which category one belongs when one is writing a 
>>>>> report about collaboration.  On the face of it, it's just more 
>>>>> talk.  But I would consider such activity truly successful only if    (014)

>>>>> changes, for the better, the way people work together.  I think 
>>>>> this is heading
>>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>> down the "words are deeds" trail.  Anyway, I'm at least trying to 
>>>>> cross the border into the world of the doer.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's been encouraging to see recent discussions about the pros and    (015)

>>>>> cons of the lists on the lists themselves recently.  Some of you 
>>>>> may be able to cite your postings as answers to some of the survey
>>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> questions.
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, we'd really appreciate your candid feedback, and we will 
>>>>> try to make the most of it.  Thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>    (016)



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