Ok. I'll buy that, for now. But I sidetracked the
original discussion. (01)
Do self-referencing links really have to be numbered? (02)
John Sechrest wrote: (03)
> In the NLS system, It was possible to address any object.
> Purple numbers are a "Poor man's reference" that substitute for that.
>
> If you want to point at a concept, you really would like to get to
> the specific sentence, or even the specific word of the sentence.
>
> So purple numbers are a gross approximation of that.
>
> If you move to the next higher level (subsection instead of
> paragraph), then you reduce what you can point at even more.
>
> Right now, the process of pointing at that
> paragraph is too complex/cumbersome for us that only the
> dedicated do it. IE, we are not cross referencing as much as
> we might like to think we would.
>
> However, the expresibility is there when we need it.
>
> I would rather say that we need more access, not less.
>
> and my desire would be to have the viewspec which would drive
> that.
>
> So I would say yes, we need purple numbers at every paragraph.
>
>
> What you really want is to have a viewspec that says
> "don't show me the purple numbers" Or "show me purple numbers
> on the heading boundries"
>
> So really I would wish that we outline what a purplewiki
> viewspec would look like and see how that changes the
> conversation about purplenumbers.
>
>
>
>
>
> Eric Armstrong <Eric.Armstrong@Sun.COM> writes:
>
> % It definitely requires a use case analysis. For example,
> % if I'm linking to a section heading, I'll create a
> % link like <a href="theDoc#32767">The Heading</a>
> %
> % In that use case, the ID is of no value to the end
> % user, since it's hidden anyway. What they'll be
> % matching is the text in the link to the heading they
> % arrive at.
> %
> % The numbers are arguably of some value when manually
> % verifying links, because you can keep the two
> % documents side by side and compare numbers -- if they're
> % in reasonable sequence in the target doc, which isn't
> % a given. This is a relatively rare use case, though.
> %
> % Then there is the case where I right click and drop the
> % link in an email. The link still looks like
> % http://someServer/theDoc#32767, no matter whether it
> % appears as "link", "327667", or a little circle on the
> % target page. So in that case, we can choose anything
> % we want for aesthetic reasons.
> %
> % The only other use case I can think of where the number
> % would be useful is when you want to copy or type in the
> % number, rather than the link.
> %
> % I can see two versions of that one:
> % a) I say, see paragraph 32767 in some document.
> % --I can't see that happening very much.
> %
> % b) I create a list of document links with "#" at the
> % end, and then type in numbers at the end because I
> % find that easier than copying and pasting each
> % link separately.
> % --while valid, it's pretty rare, so I don't see it
> % as compelling
> %
> % Those are the cases that have come to mind, anyway.
> % None of them to point to a displayed number as being
> % a necessary part of the equation.
> %
> % While I'm at it, I might as well pick up an ax and threaten
> % another sacred cow. To wit: Are purple numbers really
> % necessary on every paragraph?
> %
> % There are probably better use cases to justify that one.
> % I'm sure they guys who have been using purple numbers
> % regularly will have found good reasons for it.
> %
> % It will be an interesting if they don't though. My
> % experience so far suggests that when I want to link
> % to something, it's invariably to a section heading.
> %
> % (Lists are interesting, in that regard. As are tables.
> % A link to the whole enchilada seems more useful than
> % a link to an individual item or cell -- but I won't
> % be surprised if my intuition is disconfirmed by others.)
> %
> % And so far, I've really found very *few* uses for
> % transclusion at the paragraph level. In a content
> % management system, I may want to include sections,
> % but I'm really not sure about paragraphs.
> %
> % When I quote something, I generally want a sentence,
> % or I'll pick bits and pieces of multiple paragraphs
> % to make a quote. (Actually, the need to do that so
> % has made me more alert to leaving quotable bits in
> % my own writing.)
> %
> % And when I build up a document using conditional
> % text, it's not at the paragraph level at all --
> % it's either a phrase within a sentence, or entire
> % sections.
> %
> % That's generally true in my experience, anyway.
> % Which raises the question of whether purple numbers
> % would be more valuable if used sparingly, to add
> % the minimal additional clutter.
> %
> % Looking forward to thoughts.
> %
> %
> %
> % John Sechrest wrote:
> %
> % > Yes, I understand. But I wonder about the steps of how it is
> % > actually done by the user. having to click on the link in order
> % > to know that it is the link you want to start at....
> % >
> % > But I guess much of the value of viewspecs was bound into the
> % > chorded keyboard. You could with one key and one click drive
> % > thru a document much easier than we can with our current stuff.
> % >
> % >
> % >
> % >
> % > Eric Armstrong <Eric.Armstrong@Sun.COM> writes:
> % >
> % > % John Sechrest wrote:
> % > %
> % > % > What is the mechanism by which you name the things you want to
> % > % > see if you have a (purplelinkhere) instead of the actual name
> % > % > of the paragraph?
> % > % >
> % > % It would be a link like <a href="...#327676">link</a>
> % > %
> % > % So the number would be there, and you could read it in
> % > % the browser window when you hover over the link or
> % > % copy it. It just wouldn't appear as a number in the
> % > % page.
> % > %
> % > % That's useful for a large content management systems
> % > % based on something like Nodal, where the idea is that
> % > % everything exists as an independent unit, so the numbers
> % > % get large.
> % > %
> % > % It's an idea I've moved away from, but thought I'd
> % > % raise the question about numbers anyway.
> % > %
> % > % --
> % > % This message is archived at:
> % > %
> % > %
>http://collab.blueoxen.net/forums/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=tools-yak&i=40202EAB.8050901@sun.com
> % >
> % > -----
> % > John Sechrest . Helping people use
> % > . computers and the Internet
> % > . more effectively
> % > .
> % > . Internet: sechrest@peak.org
> % > .
> % > .
>http://www.peak.org/~sechrest
> % >
> %
> % --
> % This message is archived at:
> %
> %
>http://collab.blueoxen.net/forums/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=tools-yak&i=40208608.5090506@sun.com
>
> -----
> John Sechrest . Helping people use
> . computers and the Internet
> . more effectively
> .
> . Internet: sechrest@peak.org
> .
> . http://www.peak.org/~sechrest
> (04)
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