tools-yak
[Top] [All Lists]

[tools-yak@collab] Re: H2O evaluation (fwd)

To: tools-yak@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Eugene Eric Kim <eekim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:45:42 -0800
Message-id: <20030227174542.GD6741@douge.blueoxen.net>
On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 10:11:40PM -0500, cdent@blueoxen.org wrote:    (01)

> > Here are my thoughts.  First, the obvious disclaimer.  This was
> > obviously an unscientific, self-selecting experiment, and we'd need to
> > play with it some more to do it proper justice.  That said, H2O is
> > definitely not well-suited to small, motivated teams, which we were.
> > None of the threads reached resolution, and I suspect a big reason was
> > that we were not given a choice as to which threads to respond.
> > Rotisserie's theory of maximizing participation seems to be a good way
> > of encouraging many voices, but a poor way of reaching resolution.
> 
> I'm not sure if I agree with this. I think there are several
> other variables that may have had an impact:
> 
>  - we didn't go into the discussion with a shared understanding
>    of the question being asked    (02)

And I would argue that H2O was not helpful in facilitating that shared
understanding.  I responded to two posts asking for clarification and
further discussion, and yet the original authors could not respond,
because H2O wouldn't let them.    (03)

>  - We were not "trained" in the tool    (04)

Agreed.    (05)

>  - there was no compelling reason to be successful (no cost for
>    failure, no concrete gain from success)    (06)

I don't agree with this statement.  But even if I did, this doesn't
affect my evaluation of the tool.    (07)

Given enough motivation and shared commitment, a team will most likely
overcome the inadequacies of their tools.  Given a choice between a
kick-butt team of programmers with the worst tools known to man, and a
mediocre team of programmers with the best tools known to man, I'd
take the kick-butt team.    (08)

In the interest of being as objective as possible when doing tool
evaluation and comparison, "motivation" has to be one of your
controls.    (09)

>  - the rotisserie settings were wrong for the type of discussion
>    we were trying to have:
>    - 24 hours was too short for people who have other things they
>      need to be doing
>    - 4 rounds was just enough to get us started    (010)

Agreed.    (011)

Who controls these parameters?  Were there guidelines for determining
what these parameters should be?    (012)

>  - while we don't have any apparent winnowing of discussion in
>    the threads we produced we do have three postings that
>    received high evaluations (where high is defined as greater
>    than the maximum points one reviewer could apply):    (013)

Several gripes here.  My first is starting to become mantra for me: In
order for community rating systems to have any value, there must be
some shared understanding about those metrics.  A rating of two has to
mean about the same for me as for you.  You could argue that in a
larger group, there is more likely to be that shared understanding,
and hence, the metrics will have more meaning.  However, in a smaller
group, one outlier can throw off the ratings entirely.  This is
another reason I don't think H2O works well for small groups.    (014)

Also, I believed that ratings determined what threads would continue.
In a small group, one person could easily throw everyone off a thread,
even if everyone else in the group believes it's important.    (015)

> I went away for the weekend without computer access. I withdrew
> from the project to ensure that I wouldn't be selected for
> further followups. An improvement I would suggest for H2O is an
> option to declare weekends "off". I'm assuming some announcements
> went out over the weekend?    (016)

Agreed.    (017)

-Eugene    (018)

-- 
This message is archived at:    (019)

http://collab.blueoxen.net/forums/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=tools-yak&i=20030227174542.GD6741@douge.blueoxen.net    (020)
<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>